Vector

Anyway, I'm locking this thread... and I hope LadyM shows some sense and does the same for her site. I will leave a public statement though... I have already prepared a full compilation all e-mail exchanges I had with her, from January and June... if she doesnt put a stop to this, I will bite back... EDIT: I've got the confirmation that the EULA was indeed posted, just in some obscure post

Also... I really dont want to fight... I totally get that LadyM is angry and upset, but so am I... not only she violated the EULA, but I'm also finding out it wasnt made public? I mean... maybe you guys just didnt saw it, maybe it was in some obscure post, and you just didnt noticed? Anyway, please, lets stop throwing accusations at each other... When I made the announcement, I provided the basic information, which is not so much as blaming, but making a statement that the EULA was breached... I dont understand why ppl feel the need to dig on the subject and attack either "side"... let's just all STOP! I will do so here, when I'm told that the thread where ppl are throwing feeces at me like monkeys, is locked and any other conversation on this topic is dead and buried. This is a matter between me and LadyM, and should be dealt between me, her and at most Felio who was already made aware of the situation for a while now. We don't need ppl starting to point fingers randomly without knowing all the facts, it will only make the conversation uglier. EDIT: Come to think of it, I'm also almost pretty sure that she must have somehow, somewhere published the EULA... I have talked with some ppl about it, and they said they were aware about the permissions... Or maybe I just misinterpreted what they said... I dont know anymore...

I dont need any apologize, I need ppl to be a bit more empathetic towards all this, and stop blaming me (either explicitly or implicitly) just because I'm defending what is rightful (and legally) mine. Do you really think LadyM was interested in a smooth transition? I think not, just read her reply to my e-mail yesterday, which was totally unprofessional and not assertive at all. Again, she already knew this for about a week now... it should not be any surprise, nor she has any reason to be impulsive.

I did asked the removal, I'm not going to deny that... but I asked the removal of copyrighted content only, and Felio was suppose to serve as an intermediary between both of us to help determine what was ok or not, since LadyM lacks the neccessary know-how to judge by herself, and I also mentioned on the e-mail I sent yesterday that the EULA changes were only in effect on 21 November 2016, giving the 30 days period established in the EULA... I never asked her to remove immediatly either... Back in January, I also asked the same, but later I backed down on my decision, because I didnt wanted to prevent ppl from getting SAM and other mods, I retracted because I thought about the community and LadyMoiraine. Through this whole proccess, while I'm trying to fight for my interests, I have never disregarded any of that. I'm going to post the e-mail I sent her yesterday. It was mostly just an official communication, so I could establish a deadline for the EULA change to come into effect, since I've been dragging this situation for almost a month now... and while I did had IRL seasonal work, which is somewhat intense and takes a toll out of me, to which I need some days to rest after that, the resting period was way more than it normally is, and I've just been absent alltogether, and I'm just distarcting myself with playing games, in order to avoid dealing with this... I knew I would have fallout... believe me, I would have stop it if I could... Anyway, here's the e-mail I sent her yesterday (and her reply)

@RocketLombax I'm genuinely clueless about what is it you're talking about... In case you are telling me you are one of the ppl lashing out on me over at HoT, I wouldn't have any idea, because I haven't checked it for myself, just had different ppl telling me whats going on there and that I'm not getting any love there... I haven't read anything there, so I have no idea who is whinning or not about it. So if its not that... still clueless If you were not aware about the EULA, complain to LadyMoiraine, as you can see by the e-mail I trusted it to her, and it was her obligation as a publisher to publish it. Dont use that as an excuse, specially not to me, it was her responsability, since she was hosting SAM. If you're telling me that she never posted the EULA, it only makes it worst (I wasn't controlling it, I just trusted she would do so). Maybe you missed it but like I said, it was never my intention to strip everything out of HoT, and LadyM asked Felio (he was kinda acting as a diplomat between both of us) for helping to determine what could stay or not, and I said to Felio I was fine with that, and that I would trust his expertise. I only asked for copyrighted work and any derivative to be removed. Again, her decision. I have taken nothing away, LadyM still had 30 days before having to remove anything, it was her decision to do so, I simply sent her an e-mail making my decision official yesterday, but she was already aware of it for about a week ago. The fact that she did it after receiving my e-mail yesterday (roughly 4 hours after I sent it), even though she told something different to Felio, just shows that she did this out of spite. I considered trying to contact other authors before all this unfolded, but that would be disrespectful for LadyM, and I'm sure she would have accused me of collusion, and that I want to destroy her site, as she already did in the past. I wish there would be a peaceful solution to this, I tried my best to minimize her impulsiveness, and from taking it as a personal attack. Its simply me taking care of my interests, since she has been unwilling to do so over and over again. FYI, I'm aware of the violation for almost a month now, I have thought a great deal about it and how should I have proceeded. I am not in anyway minimizing other ppl's work, nor I ever did. I want them hosted here, not anywhere else, under my full control. And don't lecture me about not helping other modders or going against the "community"... There were even mods, that while they were pretty much made by me (lxlhunter's Argonian tail mod and Aoki's SOS Revealing Armors are such examples) I encouraged them to publish as their own. In fact, I always encouraged ppl to publish all their work on their own, regardless of how much I had helped them or not. Why do you think I did and released Brute Argonian Male? I have really no interest in it, I did it because lxlhunter really wanted it. What about me doing Samuel shape? You know very well that I have no preference over that body type, I did it because ppl kept asking me for it. What about me explaining in full detail to Hymnaru how to create armors for SAM? Obviously all this shows my total disregard to other modders and the community, and the unwillingness for me to help and promote other authors work </sarcam> You dont have to agree or disagree... Its my work, I will protect it as I see fit. I'm not sharing for fame and glory, I'm sharing because I like to mod and in the proccess I can share it, but I won't be putting my welfare in second plan anymore, and I will do anything I can to protect my interests within legal boundaries. Also, since when do I have any obligation to share anything? Oh right... I don't... I'm also going to call the attention to this very important issue, that maybe ppl are disregarding... You may very well disagree with my decisions, but you may not disagree with the EULA itself or any of its rules: So its very simple, if you don't agree with the EULA, simply don't use SAM or any other of my work. I'm sure there are other alternatives. I have open hand about SOS, just ask that if ppl are using any assets give me, Smurf and B3lisario credit for it. I'm also sure there are other alternatives, I'm not forcing you or anyone to use SAM, you do it if you want, but if you do, you must agree with the EULA. All I want is inner peace, and let me do my damn mods, and share them if I want, and when I want. And for authors that want to do SAM mods, they are more than welcome, but bear in mind, you still need to ask for permissions, simply because I want to avoid any unwanted issues. PS-I know I sound upset... and thats because I am. But I'm not upset with anyone specifically... I'm upset because ppl are simply complaining about something that it is my legal right. If you have a problem with copyright laws, then you have a problem with the world, since all countries in the world AFAIK recognise the Berne Convention and Treaty, and on both the US and in Europe at least, there are strong laws that defend copyrights.

I'm planning on doing any neccessary updates and maybe adding new features, that may only be possible with the Special Edition. Some other features that I have abandoned, probably will also try to implement, as they are feasible on the vanilla version of the game, like tintable body hair to match hair colour.

@Khlas I get it... you are disappointed, and I'm sure you're not the only one... but how do you think I feel right now, when I know I have ppl lashing out on me on HoT (and to be honest I dont even dare to go look, as I dont want to get any more annoyed and I dont want to further escalate the problem). You are free to disagree about my actions, but I'm doing it to protect my work and interests, not yours, not LadyMoiraine's, not anyone else. Do you by any chance think that I abandoned SAM or HoT because I didnt felt like doing it anymore? It was a really hard decision to make, and not entirely by choice. I did it, because I felt threatened there. And LadyM knows the reasons very well, and she was more interested in not solving the issue, than to rather have me there. Do you know how hard it feels for me, not being able to work on my own work? to not be able to further develop SAM, which is something that I loved doing? I wonder how would you feel, if someone who threatens you and your health, would be everyday by the doorstep of your house or your job. I can't return to HoT, I won't, and I'm not giving up this time on my own work, not anymore, and specially when I have legally every right to do so. In June, I gave LadyMoiraine her last chance to make things work, the rules were clearly established, its not my fault that she breached the EULA. Its not like I mind controlled her to do so... She should have been wiser, and in case she had any doubt she should have asked. You dont shoot first and ask later, specially when there's a written document. If you dont agree with the EULA, again, dont use the mod. I'm not forcing you or anyone to do it. But if you do, you are bound to it, either you like it or not, and either you like it or not, copyrights are protected under law and under the Berne Convention/Treaty. If you dont agree, you are also disagreeing on this, and that no copyrights should exist and authors should not have any rights over their works. Its appalling to see someone thinking this way, and if you do, again, I urge you to leave, as I have no intentions of ever disrespecting any authors works, specially when they are provided for free... Free does not mean you can do whatever you want. Free means that someone is willing to share stuff for free, not handing you the rights to do whatever you want. Also, LadyMoiraine already knew this was happening for about a week now, as I asked Felio to rely my intentions to her in advance before I would send any e-mail to her, so she could have time to be angry, to vent, and to chill about it. Felio also informed me that he would also help her to determine what was ok to stay on HoT, and what was copyrighted work and/or derivative. Felio's own mod, is an excellent example of a mod that could very well stay on HoT as I have no copyrights over it, so I would never take action against it. This was also expressed to LadyM via mail by me, back in January. As far as Felio told me, LadyM told him that she didnt wanted for the SAM forum to be gone. Today, at 16h42 GMT I sent her the e-mail informing her about the EULA violation, about what were her rights, and that I, was the only one that could give permissions to allow edits or mods that were done over my work, as anyone can read the EULA, and revoking her her rights of publishing. I also told her that the EULA changes were to come into effect in 30 days from today, which is the period already established in the EULA for any changes to the document. In no way did I asked her to remove either everything or did I asked her to remove it today, she has 30 days to do so. If you are disappointed, go over at HoT, and express your disappointment to LadyMoiraine, not me... she was the one, that failed to follow the agreement, not me, and again, I gave her the chance to discuss the EULA, as you can read on the e-mails I posted. Its really mind blowing seeing ppl blaming me for a mistake I did not made. Its also worthy to mention that when I decided to leave about 2 years ago, before I requested my ban on Nexus, I did uploaded both Mighty Beasts and Brute Argonian Male to Hall of Torque, so people could still have access to them. Not only that, I also uploaded those minor mods for spriggans/flame atronach, and even while being super depressed I set myself to finish the Schlong Stones mod which I was working at the time to take a small break from SAM. Really good times! Working on a mod to publish it before I abandoned everything, while kicking myself out because I was feeling like crap and like shit, being sucked into the black hole of depression... talk about being selfish uh? working on a mod while crying at the same time! Woohoo!!! Anyway... I'm disappointed at all this, as much as you are, for different reasons ofc. And I'm sorry if you think I'm being selfish, or whatever, and if you feel that I'm a dictator, I really couldnt care less... you ppl have really no idea how much time and effort I spent on SOS or SAM, or any other mod I work on... I'm very persistent, and sometimes I would spend week after week with a 3 hour sleep each night, and I would barely do anything else but trying to understand how to do several thingsthe things I wanted to, which btw, no one else ever did... sometimes I would be on the verge of giving up. And I do it, because I like it... And... I dont mind sharing what I do. But I really couldnt care less if I share with everyone or not. Before setting up my site back in June, I shared both my D:OS and XCOM 2 mod privately with friends who I trusted. I dont mind going back to that really, and I would still keep up my site, exclusively for my Patrons, but if at some point I feel the need to block the access to my site to the general public, dont doubt for a second that I wont do it. I've already put the community before my interests 2 years ago when I left... and from now on, I'll just start being selfish, and defend my interests only. After this all ordeal, I'm not even sure if I'm going to keep my game raffle anymore... so don't expect I'll do one in December during the next Steam Sale... or even expect that I'll keep giving ppl free access to my site and work. I wont be here on my own site being judged by ppl I dont know from anywhere. Its not a dictatorship, its simply my home, you come in, I'm your host, and you're my guest, you must follow my rules, its pretty simple. Anyway... about your mod... it might be a bit pointless to share anything for now, specially if it relates to ESPs or Scripts, as I'm bound to be working on them pretty soon, but you are free to do so, maybe tomorrow when I'm feeling a bit better and can start giving ppl's author membership so you can upload whatever you want... Also feeling really tired and exausted about all this discussion, right now I cant even decide basic needs like getting a coffee or try to go to sleep...

Considering that: You have provided a quote out of context, without saying anything else And that I'm currently being attack by a mob of ppl on HoT kinda fed up that everyone is so "disappointed" how others are keeping the mod alive, as if I had no intentions to do so myself If you were not attacking me then I apologize (although you made a great job at making it look you were), but I'm kinda tired of being judged and blamed by my actions, specially because my work is my own and I can do whatever the hell I want. I legally have that right, in case ppl want to keep banging on that same door. I couldnt care less if you are disappointed or if you think I'm a dictator... this is not a government... this is my personal website where I choose to share my work, and I do and say whatever I want, I owe no one any justification, and people have to follow my rules. If you have the rights of being disappointed, surely I can have the right of being fedup, right? I don't even understand your dictatorship analogy, its out of context, I have not banned you or muted you or anything. And even if I had, again, its a personal site. But again, it seems that you are blaming me for not catering to your specific needs, while I dont have obligation to you or anyone... how about instead of disappointment, you say instead "gee... thank you Vector, for spending countless hours on developing unique mods that otherwise probably no one would do" or "gee... thank you for spending so much time on modding that you barely have any time to play" or "gee... thanks for taking 2 months to figure out how to create the SOS system alone that makes it compatible with anything and doesnt require FNIS" Dont you think that instead of showing your disappointment... a simple "thank you" would be good? have you even ever thanked me? thats all I need... but instead, you prefer to thank the other guys that are keeping the mod alive. So, thank you indeed for your awesome and positive disappointment!

I was talking about the timeline, which I have several times mentioned on several posts, I'm waiting for SSE to be released so I can get back to modding Skyrim/SAM. This goes back to June. The mod should work still for any version, but again, only a few features will be available for SSE, if it allows what I want. I never said I wont be doing just for one version or the other, as I also always considered SAM compatibility to any Skyrim/DLCs. I'm sure there will be a way, maybe through SKSE, to determine if the game engine or whatever is A or B (thats pretty much how DLCs are checked, and thats why some features on SAM only work/show if you have the DLCs), and I bet a similar check would be possible once SSE comes out. I'm neither comitting in saying I'm doing it or not with Vanilla compatibility in mind. Yes, SSE is my main aim, because I want to include new features that are impossible in the vanilla version of the game (I tried when I was still developing for SAM). These features will require new textures and new scripting, so depending on the effort that it would take to maintain 2 versions, I can do it or not. Also, its my work, and I have full control over it, if you're not happy, just leave, thank you!

I never said that I wont be considering the normal version of Skyrim, the only thing I recall saying is that I want to see if I can implement new features with the SSE version, which are impossible with the normal one, because I have tried... not sure where you read that, could you please provide a link? The texture file was already uploaded.

I'm aware of your concerns, and I fully understand you. It was never my intention to prevent ppl from getting my mods, or doing their own mods over mine (and as long as ppl ask for permission). When I went off, about 2 years ago, I was so fed up and so distressed, I asked for a ban on Nexus... I wanted to be left alone, and I wanted peace and solitude. However, before I did that, I uploaded all the mods I had on Nexus (BAM, Mighty Beasts) to Hall of Torque, plus some minor ones I never really bothered uploading them anywhere (like the spriggans/flame atronach). I even took the ultimate effort of finishing the Schlong Stones so I could upload it, even though while I was finishing it, all I wanted at the time was to pretty much disappear. I hope ppl understand that I never had any intentions to do any of this, and while LadyMoiraine by herself cannot be blamed of what triggered me to leave about 2 years, she is largely responsible for me not returning to Hall of Torque. She knows this, she knows the why, and yet, she prefers to not have me there. I gave her a last chance, by establishing rules on a document, the EULA, and even then, she violated it... I sincerely hope people can understand my point of view Vector

well, I wont be uploading work that is not mine, for obvious reasons... I would be an hypocrite if I did so. So all I can say/ask, is that each author uploads their own work/mods on their own. PS-Please do not upload other ppls work anywhere... I hate when ppl do that, even when its for a "good cause" and you're only doing it with the best of intentions. However, its disrespectful, and you must give a chance for authors to do so if they wish. Lets say that for some reason the author doesn't want to publish it on my site, for whatever reasons (I'm pretty sure I've been making a lot of enemies lately, because I'm just fighting for my own copyrights, which is my legal right). Its not up to me or anyone to decide to do so. I defend other ppls work as I do my own, and I hope that ppl here respect that.

I've simply uploaded the version edited by B3lisario. I have yet to look at it and determine what changes were made. I'm not at all against his changes, specially because they were made while I was absent. In fact, I initially invited B3lisario to collaborate on SAM, but he never got to do it. I wonder why he only did it after I was gone to be honest, I never did anything to him, and I trusted SOS on his hands, and even took the effort to make female SOS assets by his request, so I guess he just didnt got any interest at it at the time. I can't really offer you a 100% answer or armors, because I believe I've seen armors that dont use the SAM body at all (which I'm assuming they are setup by using other Armor Slots). In that case, they are not using any direct work from me, so its fine, you can do whatever. But in case your mod uses parts of SAM body, then it becomes derivative work, which means that you'll have to keep it on my site. EDIT: one more thing... although the EULA was changed today (and I also informed LadyMoiraine about it), as the document makes explicit, it will only come into effect in 30 days.