(Very) Crude Hot Fixes of Vanilla Cloth Refits for Citizens and Mages (LE/ SE) 2.2

Hey, I'm not the only person who rage contributes.

10 hours ago, Jamesalexian said:

Hey, I'm not the only person who rage contributes.

Hello,

I'm no problem of taking the package down (and leave this site), but if I may ask, could you teach me what the exact problem?

1. I didn't touch mesh files of original refit, and worked on the vanilla as well as USLEEP meshes from a scratch. So this contribution must have not violated anyone's EULA except for Vector's SAM EULA.
2. According to Kohleifoh's recent post, the older refits made by Rebol/ SAM Tools will be not compatible with SE, so someone should re-do the refits in order to use SAM in SE in any case. I also stated above that this contribution was 'provisory' hot fix. 
3. Even I'm not the first person that has pointed out the potential problems (like neck seams) in some meshes of the default outfit refits even in this site's forum. Once you also compare the clothes' shape and SAM base body mesh, it's immediately clear that some of the meshes (e.g. Blacksmith apron) don't really fit well in lower value of Samson/ Samuel. They were actually best tuned for higher Samson/ Samuel values (ca. 60-80).
4. Aside from the mage robes, I also mean to choose the clothes not yet dealt with the default vanilla refits nor Rhavik's another vanilla refit package (almost solely consisting of armors), as you did in Briarheart, in order to 'fill the gap', so to speak.
5. While I cannot afford (and handle) 3dsmax, as least the meshes have also been fitted with Outfitstudio (and many of them have been re-painted their weight in accordance with SAM's base body).

@Melesse

Really thank you for your note.

As you know, I'm no native in English and sometimes make a very silly misunderstanding in a short expression....

18 hours ago, Melesse said:

@y_sengaku I'm pretty sure that he only meant that it's a relief for him to see that he isn't the only person who uploads mods here to fix things that he got frustrated about, like the briarheart mesh. There is no problem here, you've been doing great work.

Exactly.

I'm sorry that I worried you by phrasing that poorly.

12 hours ago, Jamesalexian said:

I'm sorry that I worried you by phrasing that poorly.

Don't mention it.

I apologize for worrying you too. I was then certainly a but too upset among other things to consider the context of your word.

Superb work dude, SAM content like this is always welcome to my library.

Can i ask what mods did you use to make the characters look like that? textures, face replacers, etc.

4 hours ago, Pickle Juice said:

Can i ask what mods did you use to make the characters look like that? textures, face replacers, etc.

I returned to SAM (- light) in August after Kou's publication of Sam Morphs for Racemenu, and most of the textures originally came from non-SAM and diverse origins.

SSs are just taken from my usual play through character with VERY potato laptop (that barely can run SAM - full), just to show some examples.

I assume that you can fairly easily reproduce the similar one, though: 

• Face mesh and preset: Almost completely vanilla, but tweaked in accordance with the guidance of Seamless Males SE (I play LE ). Some of his features are heavily tweaked version from Racemenu Preset The Last Dragonborn on Nexus.
• Face Diffuse: Skysight Skins HD (probably high)
• Face Normal: The sample character is Nord, so I assume it's from DCE - Realistic Male Faces. As for other races in SSs, I use low-res (1K uncompressed)  made from the original SC - Men Faces (2k uncompressed) (I assume you can easily now find Don's new conversion for SAM here, but he compressed the normals into 2K DXT5 (Some people prefer 2K DXT5 compressed to 1K uncompressed, and other people vice versa. I don't really know which is better. The best was is to follow your preference)
• Body Diffuse: Custome, blended Skysight Skins HD (vanilla feet ver is actually almost close to SAM's UVMAP) and The Veteran Skins (for the crotch/ butt), complemented by the color-adjusted version genital textures taken from SAM - Hymnaru's 3MW textures, now with his open permission to the relevant work posted here, as well as SAM's default one (for nipples and toes only, with color tweaked).  The overall textures has been integreted into one in accordance with Kouleifoh's Guide (layout templete) for the custom texture  of SAM - Light (only 2K compressed).
• Body Normal: Check one of my another assemblage Skysight Skins Normal MAP for SAM Light
• Face and other body parts Specular & Subsurface: included above.
• Face Complexion: custom, but I assume you can get the almost same ones from Unmasked Face - No green detailmaps for Complexion and Necks. I arranged my assemblage complexion maps in accordance with her/his guide (Japanese - English).
• Hair Textures, Beard, Brows etc.: As for hairs, Bed Head for re-textures. Beards (v 2.0: I prefer this ver to the latest v 4.1 since some NPCs look different) for textures and Hirsute Beards for additional styles. Brows are the very  basic Brows.

I hope my memory is correct......

Other Environment:

• Overall: my PC cannot even handle decent ENB. I use a kind of ENB-alternative like Skyrim Reloaded - SKGE with one assistant effect mod.
• Interior Lighting: Either from Luminosity - Lightweight Lighting or Improved Effects (Interior- Vanilla) in different profiles.

[Added]: as for male follower NPC face lift (Sven in the SS above), I mainly take them from Mizzog's Followers, Hireling, and Housecarls or very old Follower Facelifts (either keep vanilla).

11 hours ago, Don said:

Yes compressed 2k already very good for our beloved SAM. For extra information...SAM skin format is the worst of them all. If i provide full quality...you will see weirdness like HD face but Blurry body. Lol. It's all about Matching the head with body. 

Thank you for your comment, and I understand your argument (3MW texture pack you use together in your mod's SS certainly employs 2K DXT5 for body normal map). 

I just want to start by saying thank you for your hard work at fixing these issues - as someone who pretty much always plays a mage who wears clothing, this was sorely needed for a long time and I appreciate it greatly.

I'm sure you're hard at work at this already, but I found one strange occurrence with one of the boots in your latest upload of the mod.

In the Meshes\Clothes\yarlclothes\m file path, both of the boots_0.nif and boots_1.nif files seem to be saved backwards.

And this is the in game result:

I've re-downloaded the latest file again just to be sure, and from what I can find no other nifs seem to have a similar problem. Just thought I could let you know what I've found; hopefully it's an easy fix.

51 minutes ago, Jigglebrugal said:

I'm sure you're hard at work at this already, but I found one strange occurrence with one of the boots in your latest upload of the mod.

In the Meshes\Clothes\yarlclothes\m file path, both of the boots_0.nif and boots_1.nif files seem to be saved backwards.

I really thank you for the detailed report.

I actually overlooked the potential problem in their original meshes, as with the case with the long boots in farmclothes4 (and I decided to left the latter in v 1.3.).

Just compared them with the vanilla meshes, I find that they had some rotation tweaks for looking properly in the game that the Outfitstudio (the standard tool for the refit) does not really like to work with.

For the time being, I quarantine them, but I'll look into them again in a week or so to check whether I can 'fix the original meshes somehow for OS.

'Fortunately', the default vanilla refit torso mesh of yarlclothes (Jarl's robe, as shown in your SS) does in fact not properly samson/samuel morphed in its shanks so that they it does not have weird visual glitch with the vanilla tall boots mesh. I personally suspect that the author of the default vanilla reffit (i.e. Vector) DELIBERATELY did not morphed the shanks in order not to touch these potentially problematic jarl's long boots meshes.

Thanks again for your notice!

No problem! I love what you've been doing for the community so I thought it only fair I help out if I could - thanks again for all your hard work.

I hope I've hot-fixed the (noble) fur lined boots of Balgruuf with morph sliders, together with farmer's tall cuff boots (farmclothes04).

I'll also have to check and re-adjust some boots and leg trouser parts of its torso again, so next update  will be hopefully latest by Sunday morning GMT. Thanks you all for the report and encouragement to me again (and sorry for your inconvenience as well).  

Thank you very much for all those fixes, I can finally use many things I couldn't anymore because they just didn't fit!

Thank you so much for adding the Stormcloaks!

I think we are really close to having the whole set of vanilla(+DLC) armor and clothes working on SE now. The only missing thing I noticed is [Jamesalexian's Briarheart SAM Conversion] produces invisible torso and legs. I assume this conversion only works on LE. What are the changes you think would be necessary to port it to SAM Light?

3 hours ago, Alarik said:

Thank you so much for adding the Stormcloaks!

I think we are really close to having the whole set of vanilla(+DLC) armor and clothes working on SE now. The only missing thing I noticed is [Jamesalexian's Briarheart SAM Conversion] produces invisible torso and legs. I assume this conversion only works on LE. What are the changes you think would be necessary to port it to SAM Light?

Just to perform meshes' (.nifs) optimization by running SSE NIFOptimizer would be enough, since I suppose (s)he worked with the same procedure as I do ([added]) so that its .tri morph file (indispensable for in-game morphing) is already fully compatible with the latest Racemenu SE.

On 12/26/2018 at 5:24 PM, y_sengaku said:

Just to perform meshes' (.nifs) optimization by running SSE NIFOptimizer would be enough, since I suppose (s)he worked with the same procedure as I do ([added]) so that its .tri morph file (indispensable for in-game morphing) is already fully compatible with the latest Racemenu SE.

 

Thanks for the help. I did try that but it didn't work. After more testing I found that Jamesalexian's conversion just doesn't work at all for me - not even in a clean install of SAM for LE.

I know you didn't make it; but since you appear to be using it, if you could make sure it works in your machine I would appreciate that a lot.

55 minutes ago, Alarik said:

Thanks for the help. I did try that but it didn't work. After more testing I found that Jamesalexian's conversion just doesn't work at all for me - not even in a clean install of SAM for LE.

I know you didn't make it; but since you appear to be using it, if you could make sure it works in your machine I would appreciate that a lot.

Thanks for your report, but I myself haven't really encountered any noticeable problem with Briarheart under SAM Light (LE) plus SAM Morphs for Racemenu without any modification of Jamesalexian's original since September while killing at least ca. two dozen of them.

Can you elaborate a bit about what exactly your problem with his Briarheart mesh conversion (AFAIK one of the most sophisticated works in this site) is? 

Don't they put their armor (with their implanted briarheart) on as they did in vanilla?

[Added]: I'd also appreciate on the following information: Does their torso body mesh use SAM texture you install?

I've also paid some attention to avoid the possible conflict of how Briarheart looks in the game (armor add-on). 

Have you installed any of these mods either in Skyrim LE or in Skyrim SE?

• USLEEP (USSEP)
• CCOR (Weapons Armor Clothing and Clutter Fixes for SE?)
• Cloaks of Skyrim (Cloaks of Skyrim SE)

[Added]: Adds some SSs for Briarhearts in my game, just encountered (and killed). Sorry for low-res. Even SAM Morphs (NPC) worked on them.

Thanks for replying back so quickly.

At first I tried it with SAM Light SE, then Classic SAM and after reading your comment, SAM Light LE. The behavior seems to be the same across all three.
I used "coc RedEagleRedoubtExterior07" to place myself right in front of a Forsworn Briarheart. Also tried spawned some Forsworn Briarhearts. The issue happens on all of them.

I used as clean an install as possible; so no USLEEP, CCOR, or Cloaks of Skyrim, or any mod that wasn't indispensable.

Before getting to the problem, I just want to note that in a comment in the download page of the mod @Takuyawest seems to be having the same issue. Even if it is our mistake, it must be pretty common for it to happen twice.

His comment is fairly recent so I tried to see if any of the required mods have been updated recently and could be causing issues. I saw that SAM Morphs for RaceMenu 1.0.3 was from December. I reverted to 1.0.2 but that didn't change anything. SKSE also gets constantly updated but I don't think that should be an issue.

I installed the mod as I usually do - through Mod Organizer, by placing there the .rar file of the mod and installing it there. I don't know if this is the correct procedure in this case since in the mod there is "briarheartbody_0.nif", "briarheartbody_1.nif", and a "briarheartbody.tri" file - files not present in Skyrim's default Data. (I don't know if this could be a problem since I don't have much clue about how modding this game works).

Now to the issue. The [head + helmet], [feet+boots], and [hands+weapons] don't have any issue - they morph adequately too. If the mod is not installed, there is a visible difference between the textures of those three parts and the [rest of the body], which is smaller and darker. When the mod is installed though, that [rest of the body] becomes completely invisible.

The parts that become invisible correspond to the files inside of the mod (that is, everything except head, feet, and hands).

Here are some screenshots of the problem:

2 hours ago, Alarik said:

 

tl;dr You are right.

I could reproduce your issue with minimum mod setting, though I'm still not sure whether you and @Takuyawest indeed had shared the same problem.

So to speak, USLEEP/ USSEP is responsible for this issue: In short, it turns out that Briarheart SAM conversion by @Jamesalexian is based on USLEEP tweaked version of Briarheart meshes and its management (with tweaked Biped slot assignment by USLEEP/USSEP), and without USLEEP/USSEP it gets invisible due to the Biped Slot assignment mismatch between the vanilla Briarheart armor data in .esp (Slot 32: Armor) and the SAM refit mesh itself (Slot 35: Amulet).

So far, I've managed to hit upon the following two solutions:

1. briarheart_SAM_patch_for_wo_usleep.esp :  This quick patch was made from the copied record from USLEEP, though without any master dependency as well as without infringing any copyright issue. This is the easiest way to achive the compatibility of the original meshes, but it eats up the .esp slot (Max. 255).  As for Skyrim SE, I just wonder whether someone can convert it to .esl for saving the .esp slot.
2. Rebuilt alternative, non-USLEEP/ USSEP version of Briarheart - SAM body, though I'm not so inclined to tackle this solution (since some people will still confuse about which one should be downloaded for their game). OK. at least the LE test package seemed to work in my LE (all the credit should be given to @Jamesalexian) :  SAM_Briarheart refit_wo_USLEEP_LE.7z  ;  SAM_Briarheart refit_wo_USSEP_SE.7z
3. I've not decided which option would be wise one, though. At least they cannot be incorporated with this package since some people need non-USLEEP (USSEP) version, but others need USLEEP/ USSEP one.

Anyway, If possible, could you (seemingly without USLEEP/ USSEP installled in your game) test these patches either in LE (tested by myself, though) or in SE (sorry for the fact that Form no. of the first option's .esp is still 43, not optimized for SE by CK SE) ?

Yeah, that makes sense.

I would love to test these solutions, but after installing USLEEP my game now keeps crashing when spawning Forsworn Briarhearts. Though I must say your solutions also made me crash, so I'm pretty sure they all work - in a correctly installed SAM.

Since all these crashes are kind of weird, I guess I will go step by step and try to get it working on LE first. Can you see anything out of the ordinary here? As I said, even this very minimal install makes my game crash:

6 minutes ago, Alarik said:

Yeah, that makes sense.

I would love to test these solutions, but after installing USLEEP my game now keeps crashing when spawning Forsworn Briarhearts. Though I must say your solutions also made me crash, so I'm pretty sure they all work - in a correctly installed SAM.

Since all these crashes are kind of weird, I guess I will go step by step and try to get it working on LE first. Can you see anything out of the ordinary here? As I said, even this very minimal install makes my game crash:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

.....OK. I suppose I can identify another source of your CTD problem.

Please install XPMSE/ XPSSSE (preferably v 4.51) (if you have already done, please re-install and overwrite any skeletons with XPMSE/ XPMSSE ones).

I found that @Jamesalexian used HDT SAM body (by removing HDT dependency) as a base for Briarheart body, so it had some additional skeleton nodes like butt or belly (for jiggling) that was not found in SAM original skeleton. I can replace the base body with purely non-HDT one, but it means that I have to tweak the mesh almost from a scratch so that I did without in the test release above.

23 minutes ago, y_sengaku said:

.....OK. I suppose I can identify another source of your CTD problem.

 Please install XPMSE/ XPSSSE (preferably v 4.51) (if you have already done, please re-install and overwrite any skeletons with XPMSE/ XPMSSE ones).

 I found that @Jamesalexian used HDT SAM body (by removing HDT dependency) as a base for Briarheart body, so it had some additional skeleton nodes like butt or belly (for jiggling) that was not found in SAM original skeleton. I can replace the base body with purely non-HDT one, but it means that I have to tweak the mesh almost from a scratch so that I did without in the test release above.

Got it. Thanks for the help.

I will try it in a moment. If it does work, I will also test your files.

I like testing complex mods with clean installs, but maybe that wasn't for the best here.

Personally I don't mind installing additional mods to get it to work (I don't see why someone wouldn't use USLEEP/USSEP) - and I don't think many people would care about a XPMSE/XPSSSE dependency. So I wouldn't worry too much about it; If you want to change the skeleton to make things simpler, I think it would be really cool, but don't feel pressure because I don't think many people would care about that extra bit of cleanliness in the install.

Edit: but I guess finding all of the dependencies of the mod and posting them somewhere is pretty important.