(Very) Crude Hot Fixes of Vanilla Cloth Refits for Citizens and Mages (LE/ SE) 2.2

Well, from my testing, the two solutions you provided for LE work just as well as vanilla+USLEEP. But after using the command "RedEagleRedoubtExterior07" I noticed the Forsworn Briarheart went totally invisible. If this doesn't happen to you, then don't worry too much because I haven't tried to fix my LE install that I did very quickly to test this.

On your solution for SE, it works perfectly but the texture of the body is the default one, and not the one of SAM.

As a sidenote, the default version of the mod (+USSEEP) still doesn't work on SE - even after optimizing the textures for SE. In this case the texture of the body is different than SAM(this is the same issue mentioned in the second paragraph), and also the Morphs don't work in the body.

24 minutes ago, Alarik said:

Well, from my testing, the two solutions you provided for LE work just as well as vanilla+USLEEP. But after using the command "RedEagleRedoubtExterior07" I noticed the Forsworn Briarheart went totally invisible. If this doesn't happen to you, then don't worry too much because I haven't tried to fix my LE install that I did very quickly to test this.

On your solution for SE, it works perfectly but the texture of the body is the default one, and not the one of SAM.

As a sidenote, the default version of the mod (+USSEEP) still doesn't work on SE - even after optimizing the textures for SE. In this case the texture of the body is different than SAM(this is the same issue mentioned in the second paragraph), and also the Morphs don't work in the body.

Thank you very much for testing.

I managed to 'clean' the excessive skeleton nodes from the meshes in the following test build v2 (.esp is omitted), but I'm not entirely sure whether my fix works this time also for SE or not from your report.

• SAM_Briarheart refit_testv2_LE_w_USLEEP.7z
• SAM_Briarheart_ refit_testv2_LE_wo USLEEP.7z
• SAM_Briarheart refit_testv2_SE_w_USSEP.7z
• SAM_Briarheart_ refit_testv2_SE_wo USSEP.7z

+++ 

Changelog for testv2

• 'cleans' SAM-based body mesh in very dirty ways.
• assigns the correct .tri morph file path to the empty briarheartbody for without USLEEP/ USSEP version (v1 was not functioned).
• assigns the hitherto unused (though originally provided by @Jamesalexian) .tri morphs for briarhearts/ empty chest slots with their mesh.

I should look through USSEP's change log again whether USSEP team has recently changed how they handle Briarheart things. Your reports strongly suggests that the Briarhearts in Skyrim SE with USSEP does not use SAM refit version of their mesh as they did in Skyrim LE with USLEEP.  

On the other hand, the totally invisible thing comes from the famous incompatibility bug between non-HDT SAM (as well as SAM light) and the latest Racemenu LE (3.4+ including 3.4.5). Install HDT-PE or revert Racemenu LE to 3.2.2 will fix the issue, so I don't worry much about this one.

Thanks again for your detailed reports!

Thank you for all of your hard work.

First of all, I noticed that the body has different texture than the [hands, feet, head]. This also happened (for me at least) in the original mod but it's a really minor thing. Hard to notice under bad lighting actually. Just wanted to know if it happens to you too.

As for your fixes:

• SAM_Briarheart refit_testv2_LE_w_USLEEP.7z: Using RaceMenu 3.4.5 the Morphing works, but with 3.2.2 it does not. 3.4.5+HDT-PE probably works perfectly.
• SAM_Briarheart_ refit_testv2_LE_wo USLEEP.7z: Using RaceMenu 3.4.5 the Morphing works, but with 3.2.2 it does not. 3.4.5+HDT-PE probably works perfectly.
• SAM_Briarheart refit_testv2_SE_w_USSEP.7z: Morphing does not work on the current version of USSEP. Count't find a previous version of USSEP to test it on.
• SAM_Briarheart_ refit_testv2_SE_wo USSEP.7z: Works great!

1 hour ago, Alarik said:

>First of all, I noticed that the body has different texture than the [hands, feet, head]. This also happened (for me at least) in the original mod but it's a really minor thing. Hard to notice under bad lighting actually. Just wanted to know if it happens to you too.

>SAM_Briarheart refit_testv2_SE_w_USSEP.7z: Morphing does not work on the current version of USSEP. Count't find a previous version of USSEP to test it on.

 

I also really thank you again for the detailed bug report for v2.

I had checked both LE versions (for w USLEEP/ wo USLEEP) worked fine with Racemenu LE 3.4.5 plus HDT-PE, so your reports confirms my experimental pre-test at least for LE. >

>I noticed that the body has different texture than the [hands, feet, head]

Especially if you test with SAM - full, not SAM-light, correct?

The texture path of the Briarheart outfit body is assigned to textures\actors\character\male\malebody_1.dds (The vanilla-default and SAM light male skin), so if your SAM allots the Briarheart with another, especially more hairier texture than malebody_1.dds, the body texture would be different from other body parts. This tweaks by @Jamesalexian is still the wisest one (that's why I had appreciated his original work above at first, otherwise its distinct torso texture (borrowed from vanilla skin) cannot be harmonize with other parts, much worse than now), I suppose. 

I've personally not noticed any noticeable difference with SAM - light, and I've checked the possible divergence between the Briarheart torso test v2 and other body parts in BSlightningShader Property, but so far not succeeded in identifying any possible source of difference. Anyway, I'll look into this issue further.

I'm worrying much more about your second notice to the issue with USSEP (quoted above), since I couldn't find any potential change relevant to this issue in USSEP team's change log. I know from my experience that they sometimes actually change something in the file without any explicit log, though. Maybe I'll download USSEP by myself and look closely into its handling of Briarhearts......

[Added] : Well, I've succeeded in finding the issue: USSEP team have changed the file path to their new briarheart torso meshes. I hope that I can upload testbuildv3 for SE - USSEP version in a few hours. If you have some time in a week, could you also check this file for third time?  

1 hour ago, Alarik said:

 

• SAM_Briarheart refit_testv2_SE_w_USSEP.7z: Morphing does not work on the current version of USSEP. Count't find a previous version of USSEP to test it on.

 

OK. Hereby I hope that I can finally make the Briarheart subject to the SAM morph sliders also in Skyrim SE with USSEP.

SAM_Briarheart refit_SE_USSEP_testv3.7z

It's actually almost just a re-package with the correct directory structure altered by USSEP (plus .tri file path change).

Hey, I just tried your latest file for SE and it works amazing! Thank you so much!

I will keep looking into my issue of the wrong body texture. It's using the vanilla one for some reason.

And I'm using SAM Light which as far as my understanding goes should replace the vanilla one.

The path [textures\actors\character\male\malebody_1.dds] looks good (there are some differences in capitalization of the files and folders used in SAM Light though) and NifSkope correctly uses the SAM texture when provided the SAM Light folder. So I don't know why my game does not. I guess I'll try reinstalling MO or something.

25 minutes ago, Alarik said:

Hey, I just tried your latest file for SE and it works amazing! Thank you so much!

I will keep looking into my issue of the wrong body texture. It's using the vanilla one for some reason.

Again, really thank you for testing, and you were right in the wrong texture issue!

I found a culprit: a vanilla texture set record SkinBodyMaleBriarHeart [TXST:0005D00F] in fact overrides the mesh's SAM texture one both for USLEEP (USSEP) as well as non-USLEEP (USSEP) versions.

What I can hit upon for dealing with this probelm is one of the following three solutions:

1. Just ignore it.
2. makes a very small patch to overwrites this texture set record, though it eats up .esp space.
3. prepares SAM (light) default custom Briarheart skin/ normal map (that I had originally thought about before @Jamesalexian's fix came out), though it would be still incompatible with other custom SAM re-textures. 

If you don't mind, I also wish to ask about your opinion for these solutions..... 

Interesting, so that's what the game uses to change the color of the skin.

Personally, I think that their unhealthy skin color enriches their lore. So I would just leave as it is right now. To me, the mod now works elegantly and does its purpose.

Given how niche this is (not even Bethesda cared about it, different textures and other issues can be seen in vanilla Briarhearts), it also looks easy to overdevelop. If you still want to give it a go, I wouldn't complicate myself. But for the sake of discussion:

Would the overwritten texture set record (option 2) change the color of the original SAM texture?

As a note, this shouldn't be a particular issue to Briarhearts. I think the afflicted also have some trouble with textures.

5 hours ago, Alarik said:

Interesting, so that's what the game uses to change the color of the skin.

Personally, I think that their unhealthy skin color enriches their lore. So I would just leave as it is right now. To me, the mod now works elegantly and does its purpose.

Given how niche this is (not even Bethesda cared about it, different textures and other issues can be seen in vanilla Briarhearts), it also looks easy to overdevelop. If you still want to give it a go, I wouldn't complicate myself. But for the sake of discussion:

Would the overwritten texture set record (option 2) change the color of the original SAM texture?

As a note, this shouldn't be a particular issue to Briarhearts. I think the afflicted also have some trouble with textures.

Thanks for your response again & again!

I'll release them in a few days (after some additional tests) as optional files in the main download page as they are (so option #01).

As for your question and comment:

>Would the overwritten texture set record (option 2) change the color of the original SAM texture?

In theory, absoltely yes, but I cannot reproduce how Bethesda handle the vanilla skin color for Briarhearts (so the gap between the torso and other parts of the body will become more visible).

>I think the afflicted also have some trouble with textures.

The afflicted case is more simple. They just have a distinct (only) naked skin texure just as the Snow-elves do, so just overwriting the vanilla afflicted.dds with color-tuned re-texture skin would serve the purpose. This is what Vitruvia (skin re-texture for SoS) does with the afflicted naked skin as well as the Briarheart skin-armor (it has its own replacer .dds) , and the source of my third solution above.

I've changed some things over the SE USSEP version and managed to get it to work with the default SAM body texture - without overwriting any texture. I've only made it for SE, but if someone is interested I can also make it for LE and post it here.

Here it is in case anybody wants it: [SAM Briarheart refit SE USSEP - SAM body texture.7z]. It adds an .esp (the order shouldn't matter as long as it is under USSEP) and it's perhaps a little rough, but I personally prefer it over the vanilla skin (or having to use a texture overhaul for SAM/SOS).

@y_sengaku you didn't make any additional changes over SAM_Briarheart refit_SE_USSEP_testv3.7z right?

Some screenshots (notice the difference of texture above the wrists):

4 hours ago, Alarik said:

I've changed some things over the SE USSEP version and managed to get it to work with the default SAM body texture - without overwriting any texture. I've only made it for SE, but if someone is interested I can also make it for LE and post it here.

Here it is in case anybody wants it: [SAM Briarheart refit SE USSEP - SAM body texture.7z]. It adds an .esp (the order shouldn't matter as long as it is under USSEP) and it's perhaps a little rough, but I personally prefer it over the vanilla skin (or having to use a texture overhaul for SAM/SOS).

@y_sengaku you didn't make any additional changes over SAM_Briarheart refit_SE_USSEP_testv3.7z right?

Some screenshots (notice the difference of texture above the wrists):

  Reveal hidden contents

Before the changes:

After the changes:

 

Happy New Year (at least in my country's timeline)! 

Thank you very much also for your .esp file as well as tweak. 

It's actually a cleverer solution than mine that directly edits the texture paths of SkinBodyMaleBriarHeart [TXST:0005D00F]. 

>you didn't make any additional changes over SAM_Briarheart refit_SE_USSEP_testv3.7z right?

No.

Then, I'll make LE counterpart in a few days to post here as a option of optional file.

Thanks again and have also a happy new year!

Yeah, it's just been 12PM here. Happy New Year!

Edit: I found that editing [TXST:0005D00F] also changed the texture of the wounded part. So I decided to go for that other option. The problem is it is based on USSEP so I don't know how would I adapt it to non-USSEP/USLEEP. But the LE USLEEP should be easy and I might post it here later.

Edit2: Here it is: [SAM Briarheart refit LE USLEEP - SAM body texture.7z]

18 hours ago, Alarik said:

Yeah, it's just been 12PM here. Happy New Year!

Edit: I found that editing [TXST:0005D00F] also changed the texture of the wounded part. So I decided to go for that other option. The problem is it is based on USSEP so I don't know how would I adapt it to non-USSEP/USLEEP. But the LE USLEEP should be easy and I might post it here later.

This is my tweaked version for LE:

My .esp includes some more records in order not to add master dependency.

[Added]:

• You can use this patch regardless of your install of USLEEP/ USSEP, since this patch does not have either of them as a master file.
• You don't have to original optional patch for SAM briarheart either for LE or for SE from the main download section of this mod, added in v. 2.1a(+). This optional-optional patch presupposes neither the optional patch nor (very-) crude hot fixes package itself. 
• This optional-optional patch requires a small .esp to override the setting of Briarheart body texture to use SAM or SAM light original skin. 

+++

• SAM_Briarheart_original_skin_texture_LE.7z
• SAM_Briarheart_Original_Skin_Texture_Patch_LE_1_1.7z
• SAM_Briarheart_Original_Skin_Texture_Patch_SE_1_1.7z

+++

Change Log for this secondary option (SAM original skin patch ) for SAM Briarheart conversion.

1.1:

• Provides also SE converted meshes (though .esp is still technically LE version (Form no. 43). I'm looking for some volunteer who can optimizes it to Form no. 44, proper SE version, by SE CK.
• Merges 1st person skeleton edit of NakedTorsoHighElf [ARMA:00038A6B] and NakedTorsoWoodElf [ARMA:0003D2AF] Armor-Addons into this patch to prevent potential CTD issue when the player character is either a High elf or Wood elf male and get naked. 

If you convert the meshes (and .esp if you mind form number problem) into SE by NIFOptimizer SSE/ CK SE, it will work also for SE regardless of USSEP (for LE, USLEEP) though the tweaked outfit record will conflict some other mods like COOR.

Yeah, I can optimize it to Form 44.

But first, let's figure this out: I've tested these patches in both LE and SE and while the game doesn't crash or anything, the texture of the wound is the incorrect one. Can you confirm that in your install the wound is bloody?

19 hours ago, Alarik said:

Yeah, I can optimize it to Form 44.

But first, let's figure this out: I've tested these patches in both LE and SE and while the game doesn't crash or anything, the texture of the wound is the incorrect one. Can you confirm that in your install the wound is bloody?

Sorry again (and again). I should have must checked more throughly.

.esp must be OK (using maleskins_1). The meshes of briarheart_0 (1).nif as well as briarheartempty_0(1).nif with 1.1 were rather problematic.

I first tried with the backward-converted (by Nif Optimizer) ones from your package, but they did not work correctly in my game (a kind of unstable flashing) and I couldn't identify the cause of problem. 

So, I reverted them with my old ones (inherited from @Jamesalexian) without much scrutiny (then the problem happened).

If possible, could you check whether do these ones look correctly in your game?

• SAM_Briarheart_Original_Skins_LE_1_11.7z
• SAM_Briarheart_Original_Skins_SE_1_11.7z

[Added]: As for potential CTD thing, it is originally not relevant with the Briarheart itself, but for safety for Altmer/ Bosmer male players.

Don't be sorry, you are doing great work here.

7 hours ago, y_sengaku said:

[Added]: As for potential CTD thing, it is originally not relevant with the Briarheart itself, but for safety for Altmer/ Bosmer male players.

That's wonderful.

I've tried your files and I saw Z-Clipping of textures. Note that in my versions I removed the mesh of the wound in briarheartbody_0.nif and briarheartbody_1.nif. Removing that with NifScope should fix this issue.

Edit: Also, if possible make sure that briarheart and brearheartempty have higher priority value than the body in CK. Because that greatly reduces the difference between the two textures.

12 hours ago, Alarik said:

Don't be sorry, you are doing great work here.

That's wonderful.

I've tried your files and I saw Z-Clipping of textures. Note that in my versions I removed the mesh of the wound in briarheartbody_0.nif and briarheartbody_1.nif. Removing that with NifScope should fix this issue.

Edit: Also, if possible make sure that briarheart and brearheartempty have higher priority value than the body in CK. Because that greatly reduces the difference between the two textures.

Well, really thank you again (and again) for your advices.

• SAM_Briarheart_Original_Skins_LE_1_2.7z
• [Updated: forgot to include the textures]: SAM_Briarheart_Original_Skins_SE_1_2_a.7z

+++ 

• Removes a wound bodypart of the mesh from briarheartbody_0 (1).nif (and re-generate .tri file morph). Really thank for the notification.
• The priorities of the Briarheart/ Briarheartempty are set 3 in USLEEP/ USSEP original against 0 of Briarheartbody, so I don't (and didn't) touch them.
• I've noticed a mismatch between the desaturated and stretched skin just around the wound and body, so adds a former testbuild of custom briarheartbody skin, made from the resources files used in Skysight Skins Normal Map for Sam Light to reduce this texture mismatch further ([added]: check the comparison between the two lowres SS below). If you don't like how it looks (probably too ruddy for SAM default), just purge the entire texture folders from the package (Honestly speaking, I forgot to remove this textures so that I couldn't the texture mismatch at first......).
• 1.2a (updated) SE only : thank for @Alarik, updated .esp optimized version for SE.

I hope they will finally work without major issue then......

2 hours ago, y_sengaku said:

• SAM_Briarheart_Original_Skins_LE_1_2.7z
• [Updated: forgot to include the textures]: SAM_Briarheart_Original_Skins_SE_1_2.7z

I've tried them both with and without USLEEP/USSEP and on my side they work perfectly. Do you still need the slot 43 conversion?

1 hour ago, Alarik said:

I've tried them both with and without USLEEP/USSEP and on my side they work perfectly. Do you still need the slot 43 conversion?

Really thank you for trying them as well as quick response! 

As for Form no 43 to 44 updating, only if you have time and don't mind going along with a certain authority's comment.

It can be certainly sometimes annoying (some tools show a warning message about 'LE/ SE version mismatch'), but it will not do any actual harm AFAIK. 

I think this should be it [briarheart_SAM_patch.esp]

Edit: I just found that a gap between the body and the wound can be seen. Probably it is the result of that texture thing you did, because it wasn't so pronounced in my version. Either way, just leave it how you want but I thought I might as well tell you about it.

1 hour ago, Alarik said:

I think this should be it [briarheart_SAM_patch.esp]

Edit: I just found that a gap between the body and the wound can be seen. Probably it is the result of that texture thing you did, because it wasn't so pronounced in my version. Either way, just leave it how you want but I thought I might as well tell you about it.

Really thank you for Form no. updating! 

I'll look into the gap issue further.

Some clothing BUG, No body hair changes.

I use LE SAM.

2 hours ago, good0593 said:

Some clothing BUG, No body hair changes.

I use LE SAM.

Thank you for bug report!

I cannot re-produce your bug, though.

Body overlay seems to apply to the body mesh subp-art of this hotfix in my test (see spoiler below).

I also double-checked the structure of the mesh (_0.nif/ _1.nif) that I followed the original vanilla mesh. It means that if the begger cloth mesh of this mesh is not compatible with overlay the vanilla as well as Unofficial patch version meshes as well. So, I have no idea what causes your visual bug......

1 hour ago, y_sengaku said:

Thank you for bug report!

I cannot re-produce your bug, though.

Body overlay seems to apply to the body mesh subp-art of this hotfix in my test (see spoiler below).

I also double-checked the structure of the mesh (_0.nif/ _1.nif) that I followed the original vanilla mesh. It means that if the begger cloth mesh of this mesh is not compatible with overlay the vanilla as well as Unofficial patch version meshes as well. So, I have no idea what causes your visual bug......

I use LE SAM. Not LE SAM Light.

SAM Light is a single skin.

SAM is MCM 5 kinds of skin.

I use SAM High Poly Conversion, clothing no problem.

1 hour ago, good0593 said:

I use LE SAM. Not LE SAM Light.

SAM Light is a single skin.

SAM is MCM 5 kinds of skin.

I use SAM High Poly Conversion, clothing no problem.

Can you trouble with the SAM — Shape Atlas for Men version test? Thank you.

 

Thank you for your response, but whether SAM or SAM light makes no difference for this case (since the rugged cloth mesh includes whole the body from the neck down).

I double-checked ths mesh's structure with that of vanilla outfit, but found no irregularity there.

You can alternatively try the one in Kouleifoh's high poly package, but it is only that one that really differs from other rugged clothes replacer.